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Arabian Silver Dapple Stallion

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1 Arabian Silver Dapple Stallion on 4/10/2010, 5:15 pm

I own an arabian bay stallion named Khingston and he seems to me to be a silver dapple bay. He has silver and gold in his main and tale, a striped hoof or two, and his black points are muted from black to bronze. His dapples are golden in the summer. As a foal everyone at the shows would ask what color is he. He comes out of Khartoon Khlassic (see photos at his webpage) who is out of Khemosabi. Khartoon is a sabino arabian and is also registered as a pure arabian pinto, Khemosabi was simply sabino(they had his belly spots surgically removed). One of Khartoons get (who was gelded is listed as silver dapple and his on Khartoons site towards the bottom on the for sale page.

My stallion is diluted but I don't believe there has ever been a test that isolated the arabian silver dapple gene. I know that my stallion has rabicano and sabino genes but do these genes created a silver dapple or in Khingston's case golden dapple horse? He has all the looks of a silver dapple bay.I have never seen a pure arab with bronze leggings, they are always black. How do I post a photo so you can see for yourselves? Ky

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2 Re: Arabian Silver Dapple Stallion on 4/11/2010, 12:12 am

You can click on the 15th button on your reply box, the polaroid with the floppy disk in front of it to upload a photo into your message from your computer.

There are lots of things in your post I want to address but I'd like to see the photos before I do. Very Happy

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3 Re: Arabian Silver Dapple Stallion on 4/11/2010, 1:22 am

Ok I've got a minute to respond in more detail:

1: Arabians are believed not to carry silver. There has never been a proven case of silver in the Arabian breed.

2: Silver and gold in his mane and tail (especially at his young age) is not unusual on any color. Silver can be explained by sabino and/or "Gulastra Plume" and gold is explained by easily by "baby flaxen".

3: Striped hooves on white legs don't count. These are caused by ermines spots causing bands of color through the otherwise white hoof. I don't see striping on his only solid leg in the photos I've seen of him.

4: Just for the sake of it... they allegedly had Khemosabi's belly spots removed. Just a pint of controversy with no proof, but meaningless in this case anyway.

5: I see nothing about the foal on KK's site claimed to be silver dapple that actually looks silver. He just looks bay to me. Neutral Actually I see two claimed to be silver, and neither look it to me.

6: The silver test provided by all testing labs works for all breeds. There isn't a separate gene for Arabians. A simple way to know would be to send in hair and have him tested for silver.

7: Neither rabicano nor sabino will cause a horse to be a silver dapple. They can add silver to the mane and tail though.

8: I have actually seen LOTS of pure Arabians with bronze points. It's not uncommon. He is only 4 years old this year and it is very normal for the true black points not to come in until they're somewhat older. Every year I've seen him his points have been darker. They're coming in, just slowly.

HTH!

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Thank You for your knowledgable response. I learned a little more about genetics as they influence the color of horses.

I can admit I know only a little. I have been studying the lines of the five strains of arabian horses for 29 years this year; this is as long as I have owned arabian horses. I do know that if Khemosabi expressed a pure pinto gene when he was coming up in the show world in his time he could not have been shown at all in the Arabian "A" Circuit Level at all! So, if in fact he had any experession of pinto it would have had to be covered up if he were to be shown and or used as a stud and either way I am so glad that they did. I love everything about this american arabian icon. Just a few short years as he was coming into his own we had no DNA testing to verify whether an arabian was pure or not, and if any arab expressed pinto he would have been disqualified and believe to be not pure bred. Back then if an arab expressed more than white socks and a star or snip they were looked on suspiciously in the very political arena of the "A" Circuit. So in comes DNA and what could not be proven before can now be proven beyond doubt, no matter the coloring of the arabian. And here is more proof to me that Khemo expressed his sabino with a body spash that had to be hidden - his son Khartoon is born. And out of Khartoon comes KHingston. So while there may be no such thing as a silver dilute arab in the past does not mean to me that it is not possible. There used to be no recognized pure pintoi arabian. So the fact that a bay arab isn't supposed to express silver or golden dapple may also fall into this catagory (that we know but a little) in the scheme of color in the horse world. And if Khingston's color does no come under the silver genetic catagory it is none the less very rare. I would love to see photos of all these bay arabs with diluted points that you have seen because look as I might I can see no other arab this color. Proof of this is that where ever we go arab people stop and ask me what color he is and if he is pure bred. So I am not alone in thinking him an arab of a different color.

When I purchased Khingston I did so because I like the white to liven up my arabs but that was only the icing on the cake. What was most important to me was his breeding. He has bloodlines full of international and national champion arabians in his history. More than 16 lines to Champion arabian stallions recognized by the world as being the best of this breed are in his first 6 generations. His temperment was another key factor as he loves to learn and is so easily trained, he loves people and he is extemely sensible and athletic. The sabino factor was last on my list in selling this foal to me. I wanted a nice bay with white, like Khemosabi. Khingston is 39% Khemosabi blood. I was disappointed at first that he appeared to be an odd color. Even those in the A circuit couldn't wrap their minds around his coloring. I have been around bay arabs over a quarter of this past century and in this time I have never seen bronze points on a bay arab. Yes, they have darkened some but they will never turn black. They are deluted and that is a fact. It is like trying to convince me that a foal born a bay will one day be a black. Khingston's points are dark bronze and they will never be black. He seems to dilute his get as well. I can't wait to see a pure arabian buckskin of palimino and I believe Khingston may be the horse to do it.

With respect to "baby flaxen" I have seen this in bay arab's when young. But I have never seen the metallic gold coloring of Khingston on a bay. I will wait a coup;le of more years to see if his cold goes away but I haven't seen that yet. His silver in his main and tail will never dissapear and I have only seen this in coloring in grey's. I do believe it can express in bays because there it is in Khingston's mane and tail. His new tail hairs are coming in golden at the top of his tail. He dapples to two tones of gold and bronze as well. I have been told that KK has been tested and only shows as a bay and yet I have never seen a bay with his coloring?

When I first opened your sight page there is a photo of a silver bay horse one the top row of photos. While it is a bit more extreme than Khingston, it is his coloring exactly. It is the first photo of any horse that I have ever seen that comes anywhere near the coloring of Khing. I do not believe that Khingston will come up with Silver genetics, however he is an arab whose remarkable coloring I have never seen before in a bay arabian. So whatever it is he is truly an arab of a different color. And he dilutes his get into this golden bay coloring as well.

I was amazed that you already were familiar with my stallion so it must interest you to see how he turns out as a 6 year old. He is 4 this year so I don't see him getting too much darker. The sabino and rabicano genes are finding ever more exotic ways of expressing themselves and Khingston is just another form of living proof. These golden arabs (although they were always chestnuts) can be seen in Khingston's lineage back in early arabian recorded history and were the prized possesions of the early bedoins and egyptians. They loved the white (as in world reknown Mesoud). If you go to purepedegree's site and click on Khingston and then click on photos you will see how well bred this guy is. The photos tell an amazing story of this line of horse.

I have never been disappointed in my stallion and he has the full run of my small Khingston Farm. I believe a well bred arabian is what keeps the arabian horse so dear to my heart. There is nothing flighty or airheaded about this boy. I will continue to be curious about his coloring and see where this leads.

From where do I find this icon to upload photos for others to see?

Respectfully and in the love of all horses,
Dr. Ky Mears

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5 Re: Arabian Silver Dapple Stallion on 6/10/2010, 12:50 pm

For what it's worth, here's another pure Arabian stallion who looks very similar to yours.



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6 Arabian stallions on 7/3/2010, 10:01 pm

smokeysg


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Have any of these silver looking stallions been tested for silver yet?

7 Re: Arabian Silver Dapple Stallion on 7/3/2010, 10:06 pm

I do think the one I posted has been tested, but I'll have to check. As for the OP's stallion, I'm not sure.

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